Quick Look: Thermalright Spitfire & VRM-R5

by Ryan Smith on 4/6/2010 1:11 PM EST
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  • GiantPandaMan - Tuesday, April 6, 2010 - link

    At that kind of money and complexity, I wonder if water cooling is cheaper. Do they even have water coolers that attach to the VRM's? Anyone know?
  • Ryan Smith - Tuesday, April 6, 2010 - link

    I'm not sure about aftermarket products, but PowerColor sells a 5870 with a custom fit water block that covers the RAM and VRMs along with the GPU.
  • GeorgeH - Tuesday, April 6, 2010 - link

    I believe EK makes one, but I'd probably go to PowerColor (if ATI) or EVGA (if NVIDIA) for a "factory" waterblock with a warranty.

    Either way, a watercooling setup is going to be the way to go. It won't be much more expensive, it won't be any more difficult to install, and it'll have the potential to perform better in terms of both noise and cooling.

    What really kills this product, though, is that it looks like Crossfire/SLI is going to be flat out impossible in most setups. A picture of this card installed in a case should really have been included in the review with commentary as to whether or not you could reasonably expect to install a second one "backwards" on an additional card.
  • Omoronovo - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link

    I'm not sure about that - depending on how tall (when in a vertical case) the VRM heatsink is, the main heatsink for the second card should theoretically be able to be mounted downwards, with the VRM mounted upwards on top of a portion of the first 5870. Wouldn't look very nice, but with performance like that, I'm not sure anyone would mind.

    I would think this would be a necessity for a cooler like this actually, because it could very well be forced to coincide with an extremely tall CPU heatsink, which would limit it from going upwards anyway.
  • NinjaJedi - Tuesday, April 6, 2010 - link

    xspc makes a full coverage waterblock for the 5870 and its only $80 (us) I have one of their 4890 blocks and it was $70 it works great and have had no problems with it.
  • DanNeely - Tuesday, April 6, 2010 - link

    Full coverage blocks have been around for years. They're easier to install/remove than expoxying ramsinks/vrmsinks over everything but they're also generally useless when you upgrade, while a set of ramsinks and a GPU block are normally usable with your next card.
  • Earthmonger - Tuesday, April 6, 2010 - link

    I've got upwards of $1000 in my WC setup. I assure you that liquid cooling is NOT a cheaper alternative to this kit. However, I water cool my CPU, GPUs, mainboard, and ram, whereas we're only talking about a single-GPU solution here. If you've already got a WC setup, then the price point is really just a full coverage block for the graphics card, and that is easily competitive with this TR kits price, while offering substantially better results. But only if you already have the setup. Pumps, rads, blocks, fittings, tubing; they are an investment which is very worthwhile over the long run. Hardware changes over the years, but the WC setup is, for the most part, a one-time purchase. If your only intention is cooling a GPU though, you might as well stick with solutions like this TR kit.
  • GeorgeH - Tuesday, April 6, 2010 - link

    1k+? That's phase change money - you must have one sweet WC setup.

    Even if you don't already have a water loop, you could build a decent one and grab the PowerColor WC-ready 5870 for around $100 more than a similarly clocked 5870 with this heatsink setup. If you're already spending almost $600, $100 (~15%) more for a warranty and Crossfire capability isn't unreasonable.
  • LuxZg - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link

    A bit offtopic but .. with that much money in the cooling setup - why not cool PSU with water as well? Sounds like only fan in your setup except those one the radiator itself.
  • Earthmonger - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link

    Simple: Lack of any good options in the market. About all there is in the 1kw range these days are Koolance units, and I won't touch Koolance products with a fifty-foot pole. But, both of my PSUs are pretty damned quiet anyway.
  • DanNeely - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link

    Part of why you almost never see water cooling in a PSU is safety related. If something goes wrong in outside the PSU you're only dealing with low voltage DC, which isn't very dangerous, and the PSU's internal breaker/fuse should be able to cut power and shut down. If the PSU shorts 120/220VAC is much more inherently dangerous, will have much more total power (even a 1000W PSU is only ~50% of a standard US wall line), and is dependent on the breaker in the electrical panel (potential fire starting failure if the wiring is bad).

    Finally because the amount of cooling you can get from a fan at accceptable noise levels is mostly fixed the trick of buying a PSU 200-300W bigger than you need will have the fan never running above idle so it stays nice and quiet.
  • Calin - Thursday, April 8, 2010 - link

    Also, you should check that you have enough "free capacity" in your radiator and water flow, or you'll have warmer cooling liquid (and so you'll lose overclocking potential, assuming that your watercooling is for overclocking).
  • bigboxes - Tuesday, April 6, 2010 - link

    Did you attempt to hook the 140mm fan up to a fan controller and dial down the RPMs and noise? It's got a lot of head room to decrease the idle noise and still remain in spec cooling. Also, did you put a fan on the vrm cooler or did your case have an intake blowing on it? I'd be interested in your vrm temps with the addition of a fan.
  • Ryan Smith - Tuesday, April 6, 2010 - link

    The fan was wired straight in to power, so no. It's an absolutely silent fan - the difference between it and the stock 5870 are practically academic. I'm not sure you'd gain anything of value by reducing its speed. Our normal case fans are louder than it is (we shut them off for noise testing).

    As for the VRM cooler, I haven't tested it with a fan since Thermalright deemed it unnecessary and did not include one for testing. A side panel fan is certainly an option, but the cooler is so tall that it's an either/or option for most cases: you can have a fan mounted on the heatsinks, or you can have a sidepanel fan.
  • bigboxes - Tuesday, April 6, 2010 - link

    Thanks for the reply Ryan. I am a big fan of quiet computing. I am not anal about it, but little things can be done to drastically increase the noise. I would dial down the case fans as well. Just wondering if you had attempted such. As long as you are not o/cing your video card then I figured you could get near relative silence from that setup. IMO, idle noise should be quieter than stock.
  • funkyd99 - Tuesday, April 6, 2010 - link

    I wonder if a side panel fan directed at the heatsink could be used in lieu of a fan mounted directly for similar results. Or if this could possibly be used passively with adequate case ventilation...
  • Ryan Smith - Tuesday, April 6, 2010 - link

    A side panel fan could absolutely be use as a replacement. I'm not sure if it would be as effective as a 140mm fan mounted directly on the Spitfire though, so you might get slightly warmer temperatures.
  • marc1000 - Tuesday, April 6, 2010 - link

    Ryan, using even a small 6cm or 8cm quiet fan on the VRM heatsink would be a GREAT test. I believe it could match the main cooler performance this way.
  • LuxZg - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link

    Seems that this setup would be perfect for a case like mine, with one 250mm side fan blowing over both heatsinks.. But the price.. :/
  • numberoneoppa - Tuesday, April 6, 2010 - link

    Impressive results. Shame that it's so damn awkwardly shaped.
  • GlacierFreeze - Tuesday, April 6, 2010 - link

    Hmm, how exactly is that "awkward" shape negatively affecting anything?

    It's positive for that shape is it doesn't take up 2 slots. What are the negatives? Besides it may not fit in some type of small form factor, I don't see any negatives to the "awkward" shape. If it doesn't have any negatives, then what's the big deal?
  • Count_EME - Tuesday, April 6, 2010 - link

    You cant fit this heatsink on the 2nd card if u wanted to go for a Crossfire setup. If u are not doing Crossfire then its OK.
  • funkyd99 - Tuesday, April 6, 2010 - link

    The GPU heatsink can be mounted both up and down... I'm guessing the smaller VRM heatsink would have enough space in a Crossfire setup, but its hard to tell without seeing this mounted in a case.
  • strikeback03 - Thursday, April 8, 2010 - link

    in a lot of cases I think pointing the heatsink down would run into interference with the PSU or bottom of the case.

    Ryan, could we get some pictures of this support kit that is supposed to use the motherboard standoffs? How much would it be interfered with when using other cards or heatsinks?
  • Count_EME - Tuesday, April 6, 2010 - link

    This GPU cooling solution is awesome, no arguing about the epicness of the results but given its high price tag lets compare it to the water cooling solution.

    Cons of Spitfire:
    1. High price
    2. Awkward shape and big size (I doubt if someone can fit these coolers on both 5870s if he wants to go Crossfire. Similarly for the GTX480s)

    Now coming to water cooling a very decent water cooling solution (CPU block+MCP655 type pump+3x120mm Radiator+3 120mm fans+fittings) can be bought in $200-250 range. For example:

    Enzotech SCW-REV.A CPU Waterblock = $34.99 ( NewEgg price )

    Swiftech MCP655-B Pump to drive water through both CPU and GPU blocks = $64.95 ( Koolertek Price)

    Swiftech MCR320-QP Radiator 3X120mm = $48.95 ( sidewindercomputers Price)

    Reservoir+Radiator Fans+Fittings+Coolant = $50

    This gives u a decent water cooling setup in $200. Now PowerColor does offer an Liquid Cooled version of 5870 for $515 (NewEgg price) which is only $65 more than rest of the stock heatsink 5870s. So if u combine the prices for a CPU+GPU water cooling it comes out to be $265. If you go with air cooling, you will have to spend about $80 for a decent aftermarket cpu heatsink and $110 for Spitfire.

    Now you can do the comparison for yourself: $190 (air cooled) vs $270 (water cooled). Just remember that water cooled setup will be much superior than this aircooled setup in terms of both heat and noise, and also possibly will result in a better overclock :)
  • bigboxes - Tuesday, April 6, 2010 - link

    I'm not bagging watercooing, but you forgot to list the cons for it.

    1. High cost
    2. High maintenance.
    3. Potential catastrophic loss.

    Not everyone can be aigo! :p
  • Count_EME - Tuesday, April 6, 2010 - link

    I think u didnt even read my post cause all I was doing in my post was discussing cost issues of water cooling and this heatsink. About maintenance and failure, I agree but both these factors can be very effectively addresses with careful assembling. I dont suppose noobs are gonna dismantle and remount heatsink on a gpu anyway so they are probably not the potential buyers of this heatsink.
  • bigboxes - Tuesday, April 6, 2010 - link

    I did read your post. You didn't just list a cost discussion. You listed the cons of this air cooler. To be fair there are tradeoffs to either approaches. You don't have to be a n00b for watercooling to be a pain in the ass.
  • Count_EME - Tuesday, April 6, 2010 - link

    "To be fair there are tradeoffs to either approaches."

    Thats very true, I agree 100%.
  • TGressus - Tuesday, April 6, 2010 - link

    Heirloom:
    http://212.227.231.249/watercool/cms/shop_pics/101...

    Harebrained:
    http://images.anandtech.com/doci/c3637/Card2.jpg
  • Voo - Tuesday, April 6, 2010 - link

    It may (there were some reviews about highend air coolers vs. watercooling for CPUs and watercooling wasn't that much better, so I'd like to see tests before) be better but the question is, does the extra cost, danger and effort really warrant the better cooling? I mean we're talking about mid 40s at furmark while being almost silent, I don't see much places for enhancement, the GPU will probably hit a voltage limit before it reaches dangerous temperatures when overclocking.

    If you can install the waterblocks for a CF solution and not with those coolers than it'd be interesting, but for a single card I'd say that's good enough - but maybe that's just me and my unease with water near expensive electronic devices ;)
  • LuxZg - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link

    I don't see much purpose of any of these setups. There are great VGA coolers out there for much cheaper price, and similar results (noise/heat). And like you've said, "cheap" water cooling setup will not yield any better results than you get with high-end air cooler(s).

    If you've got money it boils down to personal preference, spending several hundred $$$ just for cooling, it's really nothing else but a personal preference of air vs water.

    For the rest of us that are happy to collect enough to buy a graphics card like this one - this is all just a bit over the top. My case cost me ~35$ (with 250mm fan), I've bought Accelero S1 for 30$, and Scythe Ninja for ~45$ as well, 2 more fans for 5$ each, and my setup is around 120$ in total, for complete cooling. That's very close to just this one heatsink pack - and includes a whole case. It's pretty quiet, and cools my components just fine, overclocks fine, but won't brake records - but neither will a 400$ high-end setup.

    All fine, like I've said, if you've got money to spare. But if I did, I'd probably go with HD5970 ;)
  • Muon - Tuesday, April 6, 2010 - link

    This cooler is amazing, it basically offers the cooling capacity of a very good CPU cooler on a graphics card. As for your card it's really exceptionally bad sample, my 5870 can do 910 mhz at 1.125v which is actually lower voltage then stock.
  • hybrid2d4x4 - Tuesday, April 6, 2010 - link

    RE: "Even GDDR5 doesn’t get all that hot so these heatsinks do an adequate job for cooling the RAM"

    I might be in the minority, but in my experience with my 4870 /w an Accelero S1 Rev.2 + Scythe 1200RPM 120mm fan, my RAM temps are by far worse than the core and a bit worse than VRMs (using the RAM heatsinks included with the S1). At lower fan speeds, my RAM hit 115 while the core was ~60 and VRMs around 90. Underclocking just the video RAM lowered my system's power draw by 10W @ idle (from 130 to 120), so unless my 1st gen GDDR5 was made on a worse mfg process, GDDR5 is a bit of a power glutton and DOES run hot. Please include VRAM temps in the future.
  • Ryan Smith - Tuesday, April 6, 2010 - link

    Just to put things in perspective, the 5770 Rev 2 uses the same GDDR5 as the 5800 series and doesn't have any heatsinks attached to the RAM. The only cooling is whatever air passes over the chips.

    http://www.anandtech.com/show/3596
  • hybrid2d4x4 - Tuesday, April 6, 2010 - link

    Thanks for following up. I didn't think I'd see naked RAM on anything other than the lowest-end DDR2 cards. I guess the GDDR5 they use now is 1 or 2 mfg nodes smaller than what I have in my card. Crazy stuff!
  • Omoronovo - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link

    I believe you were actually not looking at the temperature of the ram chips themselves, which isn't recorded on 4800 series cards. The MEMIO temperature is usually the hottest part of the RV770/RV870 core, and is actually the temperature of the memory controller on the die itself.

    If the ram chips themselves were running at 115C, they would be unusable, as the thermal limit for almost all GDDR samples is 75C, which has been fairly constant since the inception of GDDR3 - most graphics ram temperature doesn't change because major advances in capacity are in lockstep with process node improvements.

    Basically then, this heatsink would reduce your MEMIO temperature considerably.
  • LuxZg - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link

    Hybrid - you're very wrong. Readings you get for "RAM" is for memory controller on the chip, unless you've measured with infrared directly on chip. HD4870/4890 has several sensors on GPU itself, for different spots on the chip. So if I were you, with that 115C reading - I'd re-mount that S1 heatsink. Or just lower the RAM overclock, which I'm pretty sure you have..
  • papapapapapapapababy - Tuesday, April 6, 2010 - link

    you can wait for the inevitable gpu /respin that does not need any of this nonsense in order to work at super low temps. this is why i love my 720 panels, i dont need to upgrade! take that ati / nvidia !
  • Mygaffer - Tuesday, April 6, 2010 - link

    Most enthusiasts who would buy this product (me) are going to put a fan on the VRM cooler too. This would have been a great opportunity to see how much more cooling performance that would net us.

    Can you do a follow up? It would only take 30 minutes.

    Thanks for the review.
  • spathotan - Tuesday, April 6, 2010 - link

    Nobody needs this kind of cooling. Nobody.
  • nubie - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link

    Haha, have you seen the latest-gen nvidia cards?

    Realistically though I could strap a Scythe Infinity to my video card for about half the cost of this and get nearly the same benefit (true I would lose a heck of a lot of my slots, but come on, most everything is on-board today.)

    How do you fit this and a tower cooler in the same PC btw?

    I would expect plenty of overclockability, even if you want to run a more quiet fan and stay around 30db.

    Many mainstream cards could even go fanless, didn't think of that did you? Lots of people like quiet PC's, and this could enable quiet gaming at reasonable card temps.

    I like it, the only question is how it would fit in a case, what it is rated to dissipate (100-200watts, what?), and how many cards it would actually fit. All of them would be a good starting point,( AMD 4 and 5 series, nVidia 8xxx - 4xx series)
  • HangFire - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link

    Everybody needs this kind of silence. Everybody.
  • strikeback03 - Thursday, April 8, 2010 - link

    Sure, but if you are using integrated graphics you already have it.
  • romany8806 - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link

    I'm curious to see how Thermalright's GPU cooling products stand up against Arctic Cooling's. I've just installed an Arctic Cooling Accelero Xtreme on my 4870X2; it was a fairly painless process and has sent my load temps plummeting from around 96ºC (complete with thermal lockups) to well under 70ºC. The impact on my PC's acoustics is astonishing, and I've easily fit the whole lot in my mATX case.

    I've read that one of these will also fit a 5970.

    I had a nightmare of a time trying to actually find one (all the other AC models seem easy to locate, including the Xtreme for the GTX28x), although eventually got one shipped to Australia by Performance PC (in the US). Maybe a bit of good press would see the dual GPU version re-enter production.
  • MamiyaOtaru - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link

    you'll have to mount this pointing downward if you want to use it at the same time as a tower CPU heatsink. If it points up like in this article, there is no room for a tower heatsink like the TRUE120 or HR-01 or Xigmatek Megahalems or whatever
  • faxon - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link

    as the above poster noted, this most definitely will not fit facing upward with a tower heatsink of any design facing toward the rear exhaust on most cases. facing it down isnt an option either in some cases (Depending on layout) because there is either a PSU in the way or another card. if that other card has one of these, you simply dont even have a way to mount both without a different case which has enough space under the second card (my HAF932 doesnt, with any mobo configuration). i may get one though for my single 5870 rig if i dont swap a second one in for a performance boost instead
  • Deusfaux - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link

    Absolutely needs photos of the card installed in the case. ie, which slot was used, how far is it from the CPU heatsink, etc etc
  • Ryan Smith - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link

    Would a shot of the card installed in a bare motherboard be good enough? A case shot against a black case like the Spedo isn't going to come out very well since we can't put a whole case in our photobox. But a bare motherboard is certainly something we can do.

    This would also allow us to do side shots, so that you can see roughly how high the Spitfire is above the CPU cooler. This isn't something that we could do with a case for obvious reasons.
  • FH1 - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link

    That sounds good to me. I appreciate the point about taking photos outside a case from different angles.
  • FH - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link

    I agree with the last two comments. I have a P965-based motherboard with a single x16 slot and Thermalright's own HR-01 high-riser CPU cooler. Benchmarks are all well and good, but the first question is, will the GPU and VRM cooler even fit? I realise you can't answer that for every motherboard / CPU cooler combo, but photos and some idea of what the tolerances might be would be very much appreciated.
  • OCedHrt - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link

    For our review kit Thermaltake included their X-Silent 140 fan
  • SgtSpoon - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link

    Can someone explain me why you would buy a 110$ cooling kit? For that kind of money, you can simply eliminate the need for overclocking by spending 110$ more on your videocard!
  • FH2 - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link

    Simple. One reason is noise reduction. The second is that you might already own a card - I bought my 5850 6 months ago when only the standard version was available. As an upgrade this is less expensive than buying a new card, probably even if I sold the old one on eBay. There is quite a large overclocking margin on the 5850, particularly the ones that support voltage adjustment, like the Asus. The third reason is for people with a 5870 that it's very close to the top; there simply isn't much more that another $110 will buy you. A 5970? That's got cooling problems with the VRMs and would probably benefit from the VRM cooler. A dual-card setup? Only, if you've got the motherboard for it. An nVidia 480? Pricey and loud. Depending on what you've already got, yeah, I'd say there is a market for it. Realistically I don't find that I need more power than the stock 5850 provides at this time, although Mass Effect 2 has been stuttering and I've been wondering whether heat isn't an issue.
  • Brazilian_Joe - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link

    I would like to see a few more things on this setup:

    1) How far can you overclock the video card with this kit? Maybe doe full benchmarking is not needed, just a few graphs and the overall overclockability.

    2) What about using the diamond thermal paste which is starting to become available on market? Diamond powder is much more thermal conductive than aluminum/ceramic based thermal compounds, and testing so far shows that it is indeed effective. Benchmarks are also welcome.
  • LoneWolf15 - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link

    Is it possible to mount a fan on the inside of the GPU heatsink instead of the outer edge of the case?

    I know it might need to be slightly smaller (e.g., 92mm/120mm) but it would allow for more flexibility, and more clearance to get airflow through the heatsink by not having the fan right next to the case edge.
  • Ryan Smith - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link

    It may be possible with zip-ties or something like that, but not with the included mounting kit. The mounting kit is designed for a fan to be mounted to the top, and the heatsink isn't the same on both sides so the mounting kit doesn't work for the bottom side.
  • 3palms - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link

    you got to be kicking, it's physics 101 that GPU Tj cannot be possibly equal to Tambient, idle or not. something is way off here. 101: Heat flows from hot to cold. When your Tj = Ta, by 101 there will be no heat dissipated or that the GPU was running at 0 watts. Only when Pgpu = 0 watts it possible that Tj = Ta.
  • Someonelse - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link

    I believe that especially for something like a GPU heat-sink there are more poeple interested in the sound aspect.

    It is hard to build a silent gaming PC. It would be nice if there was more focus on the silent aspect, like the performance fan-less or see performance difference with a low rpm fan.
  • Shinobi456 - Wednesday, April 7, 2010 - link

    I can't stop feeling the sink is placed upside down..
    It'd feel better if it was weighing down.
  • UpperEast - Thursday, April 8, 2010 - link

    This article seems to be missing the 'why' of aftermarket GPU air cooling.

    Why would a gamer buy this product? For lower temperatures and noise? A good argument could be made for this card on terms of lower noise levels, however I don't think that this will be the primary reason people will potentially purchase this product. Lower temperatures are the 'what this product does' not the 'why it does what it does'.

    Enthusiasts will purchase this product for better frame rates via overclocking. This is not at all addressed in this "quick look". Frame rates are the directly observable part of the user experience that this product could potentially impact significantly. There is a big difference between a quiet cooler that would yield me 2% more fps vs. stock cooling or a product that would offer 10%+ more fps than a card with stock cooling. I have no idea if this product falls into the former or later category.

    I hope that in a follow-up article you will address how much higher frame rates are with this solution compared to stock cooling.
  • FH4 - Thursday, April 8, 2010 - link

    Gamers don't care about noise, do they? You can turn the stock cooler up to hair-dryer levels on a 58xx. Would you do that, other than for testing? Nope. At some point, even though the stock cooler might have some more headroom in it, it just becomes too noisy!

    Overclocking varies. There are no guarantees and Ryan's card is maxxing out at 910MHz where others are reporting 1GHz+ elsewhere on the www. I think that's why he's not posting any such results. Anandtech have posted overclocking results for a 5850 here though:

    http://www.anandtech.com/show/2943/4

    That was with a Sapphire "Toxic" cooler, which got it to 895MHz (GPU) / 1175MHz (memory) on stock voltages for a 10% - 18% framerate increase in the games tested. For what it's worth, I can get my stock 5850 from 725MHz to 860MHz (GPU) / 1000MHz to 1240MHz (memory) stable, according to ATI tool and in Crysis, fan on auto ramping to about 40%, as far as I remember. At that point it is already quite noisy.
  • madeiraa - Saturday, April 10, 2010 - link

    It would be great to be able to compare with other cooling solutions like ArticCooling Accelero S1, TwinTurbo kits or Zalman's VF3000A. The Price/Performance ratio is always a very important part of such a review .

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